Here are several messages from the Pearson Vanguard Yahoo Group (URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pearsonvanguard) about rudder maintenance that have led to the conclusion to NEVER epoxy or glass the rudder. Only bottom paint and perhaps a flexible adhesive in the cracks. Due to the wood's expansion and contraction (specially in the dry on-the-hard winters here in New England), any kind of hard coating will get cracked in one seasonal cycle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark McEvers" Re: [pearsonvanguard] Rudder Every year or so this topic comes up. The best advice I ever heard from this group was Bill's comment a year ago in response to all the concern about what to do with these old antiquated wood rudders. LEAVE IT ALONE! Slap some bottom paint on it if you must and go sailing. They were not built to be sealed up. The gaps between the boards are OK too. Let them breath, swell, shrink, absorb and then dry out when on the hard. Where is Bill anyway? #355's rudder is celebrating it's 40th anniversary this year and looks like it will go another 40. Mark | ----- Original Message ----- | From: Ralph Ferguson | To: pearsonvanguard@yahoogroups.com | Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 9:35 PM | Subject: Re: [pearsonvanguard] Rudder | | I think it would be a mistake if you have enough wood left to make | the rudder work. We did epoxy and barrier coat about 5 yrs ago and it | is the same thing as fiberglass. Every couple years, I have to grind | down a section, wait a week or two for it to dry out,an redo it. Ralph | | ----- Original Message ----- | | From: cvpsailor | | To: pearsonvanguard@yahoogroups.com | | Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 11:49 AM | | Subject: [pearsonvanguard] Rudder | | | | While in the process of redoing Legacy #127, we discovered the 10 yr | | old glassing of the rudder had failed. The wood is still good but wet. | | After drying we are thinking of epoxing and barrier coat, not | | glassing. What do you guys think, pro/con. | | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From eeverett2@... Mon Jul 24 12:51:45 2006 Re: Rudder I am in the process of rebuilding my rudder. In the beginning they were made of mahogany with bronze fasteners. Granted there was not as much epoxy or fiberglass knowhow in the 60s when they were built. I have seen several rudders that have been glassed and subsequently failed because the glass failed. When the glass fails the wood gets wet and expands causing the glass to crack more. I think it is very difficult to seal the rudder especially in the area of the rudderpost. My plan is to go with mahogany and no glass. If I was in toredo waters I might consider glassing it. Ed (also Legacy) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From charles@... Sat Apr 08 19:54:13 2006 Hello Capt Jasper, I am not sure of anything absolutely in this universe, other than if you play in the water from the southern Chesapeake down to somewhere below the equator near the edge of southern temperate zone you will be in the playground of the teredo worm. They greatly appreciate any offering of bare wood you can give them. Generally to make resin and glass stick to wood one makes it as clean as one can ( and dry), therefore the little buggers will find your bare, clean wood. The stories are legion in my latitude of good wood boats that could not make two years after bumping on bottom. It is most important to keep the wood covered with something - tar, bottom paint, anything that prevents exposure to the water. They just love warm estuaries. The warmer the water the denser their population. The little devils have been migrating north the last few decades as the water gets warmer. All that aside, with a crack in the fiberglass, the monocoque structure is broke and the stresses are no longer shared equally through out the skin. To my way of thinking that is why a wooden structure in the water will break its bond with the fiberglass cover. The expanding and contracting wood now has enough of an advantage over the fiberglass to eventually win the tug of war. I have seen it happen when the glass was 'stapled' with monel staples to the wood according to the "book". I suspect it wasn't just cost savings that caused modern boat builders to reject wood, if in fact there is any cost saving at all. I would imagine one could get a couple more 'seasons' out of a rudder repaired this way, maybe more, but I doubt the 40 years my wood rudder has performed so far. I am pretty sure when my time comes to put my rudder on the list I will produce a complete fiberglass/cored rudder of indestructible "plastic" and stainless steel. Now that my personal opinion is down I must confess I am a southern sailor and we have been accused of loving our fiberglass as opposed to wood. Wood is nice decoration, it has a 'feel' that plastic doesn't - truly does - and part of that feel is the constant attention it gets from one working it - a real hands on material. The 'feel' of plastic is that of carefree freedom - in my mind anyway. This has been fun .... thanks Jasper sincerely charlotte harbor charles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From charles@... Sat Apr 08 09:20:38 2006 Re: [pearsonvanguard] Re: Rudder rebuild Hello Jay, Listening in on this brings to mind one of the things the previous owner told me when I became the new master of Celerity, hull#373. He knows I love epoxy and fiberglass. He said not to glass the rudder, it was wood and his experience was that nobody he knew had success glassing the mahogany rudder - always seemed to be some place the water got into it. I have come to realize the old bird knows a few things, has a sharp mind and watches things rather closely. After reading the newsletters (this subject has been covered much), following the chat on the site, and giving due weight to celerity's previous owner, It seems to me the only way to do it right if one has to 'fix' the rudder is to start over and make a polycore/glass/epoxy plug around the metal supports then coat out with glass and epoxy finishing it with 403 & then 407 powder mixed into epoxy (west system numbers). A real new modern tech rudder...... or just build a new wood rudder like it had before. The expansion - contraction of the wood may well be a very difficult issue to overcome. Those of us that stay in the water seem to have less problem than those that haul out and dry out do. To dry out the wood then glass is asking for disaster if any water finds it way in, as was found out when the yard goofed up and damaged the rudder (without making it "good" ...?? !!) during haul out --no doubt they had the nerve to charge for damaging your boat I'll bet. Ideally the wood should be at 70% moisture content and any water getting in through a crack is going to create an unbalanced moisture situation, even when allowed to dry some, with the result being movement of the underlying wood when glassed over .... I think anyway. Later charles ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From g8brett@... Fri Apr 07 20:28:01 2006 Re: Rudder rebuild Ed, You have probably already thought about this, but have you soaked the rudder so that the wood swells up again? I have a fiberglass rudder in Egret, but my 18' sailboat has a wooden rudder that dries out. The three pieces jiggle and move around on the pins so you would swear it was coming apart. Until it soaks for two or three days, when it swells up so tightly you can barely see the seam. I even West System epoxied the seams one year because I was concerned. When the wood swelled, it popped the glue right apart again and the rudder was as tight as ever. Green (Egret #161)// ----------------------------------------------------------------------